Kurozuka

[KasugaSan]

I kinda stopped after the first ep. lol

[silverace99]

Finished watching all 12 episodes.

animation: 9 - fluid, well drawn
plot: 2 - what plot? It's just a gratuitous gorefest. Storeyline jumps so abruptly it leaves the viewer in total confusion. Makes sense once you've finished the series but until then it's like driving a ice pick into your skull.
sound: 3 - the voice acting was either very simple or annoyingly overdramatic. And the music often didn't match the scene. OP was terrible, if you're going to do rock then do it right.
characters: 2 - you know it's bad when Bleach has better characters than your show.

overall score: 4/10. Terribad. Animation is the only sticking point for this show.

[KunJinky]

Finished reading silverace99's post.

Content: 6 - Could be more succinct, but can derive significantly more insight than "Better than sex" or from some confused looking rant.
Entertainment value: 5 - Some creative analogies, but could use more punch.

Overall score: 5.5 - Number ratings for anime reviews are silly and is an abuse of math.

[Spike]

Mad love for this, crappy ending kills a lot though, I'm gonna check the manga out. See how that turns out.

I really liked the Animation and the Plot Outline (Immortal stuff), really got to me. Characters weren't annoying, but you don't get to know em at all. I kinda liked that, fit the "I don't get shit" atmosphere from the entire anime. I think you need to be fine or even like that, or you won't appreciate Kurozuka.
AND Kuro was cool, srsly.

[silverace99]

Overall score: 5.5 - Number ratings for anime reviews are silly and is an abuse of math.

ok this is going to be long-winded but here goes.

an "abuse of math" is when you use mathematical/logical formulas to blatantly produce a result that has nothing to do with mathematical process. Such as that "women are the root of all evil" joke, where producing square roots has no mapping relationship to good or evil.

Using simple averages to produce a score on a anime review is not an abuse of math; it is a proportional representation where the numbers have a direct relationship to my opinion of the show, because I mapped my opinion (like/dislike in 10 gradations) to the number set domain of integers 1-10, then used that to produce an average. Review your math concepts before you try throwing the term "abuse of math" around.

but ok, if you want me to revise it without numbers, i will:

This show blows.

happy?

[KunJinky]

But why use an average? Normally it's an attempt to get an objective result, however it risks differing with a personal one. The suspicious thing is that the mathematical result is equivalent to your opinion, which makes me think you messed with the variables.

See the average fan doesn't appreciate X, Y, Z components in their head with equal weight. For one, it's in Japanese, duh. So the results are bound to be different from how averages are normally treated. But you're trying to pretend they're the same.

It seems the reasoning behind the variables values are inconsistent. The trick is resolving the discrepancy between what you think and feel. Say your eyes tell you animation was a "9", but you didn't get "9" enjoyment. Character design and choreography could detract from it. You can say (average-X) X being the detraction.

But it's problematic to make up the detraction by artificially reducing the other variables to generate the intended result. Then their individual value has no meaning. Even if it worked out coincidentally, it's inevitable the problem would show up again.

The thing is, the numbers don't have to add up. You're not bound by anything. Why bother?


By the way, did you honestly get offended by my previous post?

[silverace99]

But why use an average? Normally it's an attempt to get an objective result, however it risks differing with a personal one. The suspicious thing is that the mathematical result is equivalent to your opinion, which makes me think you messed with the variables.

See the average fan doesn't appreciate X, Y, Z components in their head with equal weight. For one, it's in Japanese, duh. So the results are bound to be different from how averages are normally treated. But you're trying to pretend they're the same.

It seems the reasoning behind the variables values are inconsistent. The trick is resolving the discrepancy between what you think and feel. Say your eyes tell you animation was a "9", but you didn't get "9" enjoyment. Character design and choreography could detract from it. You can say (average-X) X being the detraction.

But it's problematic to make up the detraction by artificially reducing the other variables to generate the intended result. Then their individual value has no meaning. Even if it worked out coincidentally, it's inevitable the problem would show up again.

The thing is, the numbers don't have to add up. You're not bound by anything. Why bother?


By the way, did you honestly get offended by my previous post?

I don't think we're on the same page here.

As far as numbers go, I only applied my personal opinion to each individual category (animation, sound, plot, characters), then let the average speak for itself. The average itself isn't really a number that defines my opinion of the show. If you wanted me to give my PERSONAL overall score of Kurozuka, I would give it more like a 2/10. Why? Because I am a person who puts more weight on plot and characters than animation and sound.

So why do i bother to use a neutral average of 4 seperate opinions? It's because i feel that is more fair. It forces me to acknowledge that YES, while i hate this show, It DOES have good animation. Personally when I write a review I like leave my "personal tilt" out of the score (if you've read gamespot reviews you know what personal tilt is). I just take my tilt and append it in a short sentence afterwards like thus:

4/10 - "objective" average of my subjective opinions on each individual category
"Terribad" - my subjective opinion of the overall score (personal tilt)

This is how i resolve the discrepancy between how i think and feel, by keeping them somewhat separate.

And you assumed that i made the non-animation numbers artificially low just to drag the score down...i can understand that thinking because you thought the 4/10 score included personal tilt when it actually does not.

And yes, since i studied quite hard to earn a minor in mathematics, for the record it does bother me when someone says I "abuse math".

[KasugaSan]

You abuse math

[silverace99]

You abuse math

Is there a reason why you've jumped in on this or are you too bored?

[emetic]

Haha, I see that math abuse is a sore spot for you.

But nah yeah, it would would make more sense to award the show a mark off the top of your head (e.g. 2 out of 10) which reflects how you regard the show. It seems silly to abuse math to calculate an answer which is less helpful than no answer at all.

For example, I propose the following marking schedule:
animation fluidity: 9 - fluid, well drawn
animation drawing: 9 - everything is drawn to a high standard
animation motion: 9 - the motion of the animation is really well done.
animation direction: 9 - the animation direction is top notch.
animation of scenery: 9 - fluid, well drawn
plot: 2 - what plot? It's just a gratuitous gorefest. Storeyline jumps so abruptly it leaves the viewer in total confusion. Makes sense once you've finished the series but until then it's like driving a ice pick into your skull.
sound: 3 - the voice acting was either very simple or annoyingly overdramatic. And the music often didn't match the scene. OP was terrible, if you're going to do rock then do it right.
characters: 2 - you know it's bad when Bleach has better characters than your show.

This gives us a neutral and fair average of 6.5, so it is clearly a good anime.

Trying to use numbers instead of a personal tilt when reviewing a piece of art seems doubly terribad o_o (remember that scene in Dead Poet's Society where there's a textbook which evaluates a poem's worth by multiplying various qualities to obtain a value of its worth?)

btw an ironic mark is also known as a zing.

[silverace99]

How is my answer less helpful than no answer at all?

I consider all categories equally because as Jinky says, not everyone regards all categories equally. My personal score is one that stresses plot and characters, but I know plenty of people who care a lot less for that than they do, say, animation. Keeping my own tilt out of it lets people interpret the score to their own preferences which is a lot more helpful (unless you have the same preferences as me, which is not always the case). Just because I don't put that much stock in animation quality as compared to other categories doesn't mean other people won't (anime is animation, after all). If I stick my personal preference into the equation every time i make a review, than each time the reader would have to consider my bias. This way they don't have to. Your way of doing it is like Phillip-Morris arguing the benefits of cigarettes; Who would trust you?

And your "example" is ridiculous. Of course if you make over half the categories animation you're going to have a horribly skewed outcome. I'm really not sure what possessed you to come up with something like that ludicrous and then try to use it as an argument against how I do things. My average took 4 unrelated categories and gave them equal weight to protect against bias. YOUR average gives over 50% weight to one category, which is nothing like what I did. Like Kunkinky you're assuming I fudged some numbers just to make the right average score pan out, when i did not. I don't really understand why you guys think I made up numbers to satisfy and end. Is it because that's what you would do?

The IDEA here is to not just have a review where people go, "well that's just Silver's opinion". It's to look at it as objectively as possible. 4/10 is a below-average score, which is more or less the sum of Kurozuka's qualities. I think the number DOES indeed reflect the show and I don't think you really disagree, so I'm hard pressed to understand why you're so against it.

[KasugaSan]

You abuse math

Is there a reason why you've jumped in on this or are you too bored?

Too bored. Your reaction amuses me though.

[Spike]

Rating shows is stupid. Except if you do it for the money, that makes it smart again.

[emetic]

How is my answer less helpful than no answer at all?

I consider all categories equally because as Jinky says, not everyone regards all categories equally. My personal score is one that stresses plot and characters, but I know plenty of people who care a lot less for that than they do, say, animation. Keeping my own tilt out of it lets people interpret the score to their own preferences which is a lot more helpful (unless you have the same preferences as me, which is not always the case). Just because I don't put that much stock in animation quality as compared to other categories doesn't mean other people won't (anime is animation, after all). If I stick my personal preference into the equation every time i make a review, than each time the reader would have to consider my bias. This way they don't have to. Your way of doing it is like Phillip-Morris arguing the benefits of cigarettes; Who would trust you?

And your "example" is ridiculous. Of course if you make over half the categories animation you're going to have a horribly skewed outcome. I'm really not sure what possessed you to come up with something like that ludicrous and then try to use it as an argument against how I do things. My average took 4 unrelated categories and gave them equal weight to protect against bias. YOUR average gives over 50% weight to one category, which is nothing like what I did. Like Kunkinky you're assuming I fudged some numbers just to make the right average score pan out, when i did not. I don't really understand why you guys think I made up numbers to satisfy and end. Is it because that's what you would do?

The IDEA here is to not just have a review where people go, "well that's just Silver's opinion". It's to look at it as objectively as possible. 4/10 is a below-average score, which is more or less the sum of Kurozuka's qualities. I think the number DOES indeed reflect the show and I don't think you really disagree, so I'm hard pressed to understand why you're so against it.

The problem with your rating system is precisely that you've taken four random qualities to judge by and given them equal weightings. Why is "sound" equally as important as plot? Why have you omitted the direction, the art direction, the script and the symbolic undertones? Why have you lumped voice acting together with the OP?
What I'm trying to point out is that you've picked categories out of thin air and weighted them arbitrarily, but you're trying to say it's a fair and neutral judgment of the quality of the anime.
So yah... all this means is that the 4/10 you gave Kurozuka is based on your personal opinion of the particular qualities you decided to review (disregarding ones you feel unimportant), weighted in a way you feel is fair but may not necessarily be relevant, and overall is a score which doesn't even reflect your opinion of the show.

I just think that you'd be better off using comments and not trying to justify using a random number for a rating.

[silverace99]

The problem with your rating system is precisely that you've taken four random qualities to judge by and given them equal weightings. Why is "sound" equally as important as plot? Why have you omitted the direction, the art direction, the script and the symbolic undertones? Why have you lumped voice acting together with the OP?
What I'm trying to point out is that you've picked categories out of thin air and weighted them arbitrarily, but you're trying to say it's a fair and neutral judgment of the quality of the anime.
So yah... all this means is that the 4/10 you gave Kurozuka is based on your personal opinion of the particular qualities you decided to review (disregarding ones you feel unimportant), weighted in a way you feel is fair but may not necessarily be relevant, and overall is a score which doesn't even reflect your opinion of the show.

I just think that you'd be better off using comments and not trying to justify using a random number for a rating.

The question isn't "why is sound equally as important as plot", it's "to whom?" To me plot is more important but that's not always the case to other people. Why would i decide to give one more weight than the other if i'm trying to be objective?

And how are my categories picked out of thin air? You see stuff. That's animation. You hear stuff. That's sound. You understand stuff. That's plot. You relate to stuff. That's characters. Those are the 4 major categories, all of which art direction, direction, script, blah dee blah are a part of. How is that picking something out of thin air?

And no the score doesn't reflect MY opinion of the show. That's THE POINT. -_-

The number's aren't random but i guess if you don't like fair groupings with an impartial system, then there's nothing else to discuss.

[emetic]

Oh noes, you have out-argued me.

On a cuter note, one of my cats is being especially cute tonight.

[KasugaSan]

Oh noes, you have out-argued me.

On a cuter note, one of my cats is being especially cute tonight.

pic plz

[emetic]

Sorries, I didn't take any ._.
She was meowing because she wanted pats o-o then she crawled between the guitar and the wall and started digging in some wrapping paper and making noise for attention. She is white and funny.
If I write a thousand words it'll be as good as a picture, yah?